Topic: Why are some people calling Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door a remaster?

@jedgamesguy Yeah I didn't realize how much effort the XC remaster had, although that is primarily Monolith Soft so they do things differently (Pokemon/Kirby remakes are also different, and they are also primarily 2nd party)

Since Nintendo calls TTYD a remake and all the other evidence pointing towards it being a remake, I think it's safe to say it's for sure a ground-up remake. Idk about Final Fantasy remake since I don't play Final Fantasy, but I feel like I've heard that it is pretty much a reimagining without taking that many key gameplay features, essentially making a new game with the same setting/characters/plot. That doesn't really make remakes that stay faithful in the gameplay not remakes.

I tend to use remake as a catch all. I'm not particularly bothered how developers go about it, and it's not as if you could always tell if they've used the original source code or not anyway, Also minimal changes often work better, as there's no need to fix what isn't broken.

Also, remaster has a very specific meaning in the worlds of audio and visual media, where you're creating a new master copy to counter the degradation and limited technology of the original, typically employing digital technology to enhance analogue recordings. That's something that doesn't really apply to video games, where master copies have always been digital to begin with.

Language evolves though, so it's best not to be too much of a stickler about these things.

Rejiggling

@FishyS That could be appropriate if they ever remake Fatal Fury 2.

Lol.

I like it. and if its a particularly bad remake we can use 'Rejiggered'

Good - Mario Vs Donkey Kong Rejigged
Bad - GTA Rejiggered

@steruphan Yeah honestly they should just stop calling games remakes/remasters, let the buyer decide if the game looks like it’s worth the price. Whether or not it’s just an upgrade or made from the ground up it’s bound to play similarly. I don’t think most people care, as long as the game is good

Getting rejiggly with it.

It's about time for Banjo Kazooie Rejiggied

Yeah what Monolith did with XC:DE was great, it controlled identically to the Wii version but had so many great quality-of-life improvements and visual upgrades that didn't even need to happen, like character armour, and the complex geometry of the Mechon. It's a special case of a company doing a remaster properly, we've seen it with Metroid Prime, Skyward Sword, Wind Waker, et cetera. The terminology of a 'remake' is very important here, and that's where I stand regarding Paper Mario. FF7 Remake is a remake in the proper sense of the word, which is as you say, a reimagining.

But calling it a reimagining perverts the concept of a remake. It's Nintendo that diluted the concept of a remake with projects like Paper Mario, Kirby, Mario RPG and a bunch of the Mario & Luigi games, because mechanically they're identical to the originals, but they're built from the ground up to imitate that original experience, with some add-on story to sweeten the deal. It's disingenuous to put that in the same breath as something like FF7 Remake, and the Resident Evil remakes, which are complete redos of the story scenario, with new takes to gameplay and whatnot.

@jedgamesguy People have been confused on what a remake is for a while. Literally, remake means ‘to make again’. That is how remakes have always been, but people have been more confused as of lately. TTYD is Nintendo making the game again (as in Remake), so based off of the meaning of the word, TTYD is a remake and FF7 is also a remake, just taking a lot more of an ambitious path when it comes to gameplay changes. I don’t think games made from the ground up should just be called remaster. Since remakes have been made, there have always been ‘faithful remakes’, which stay true to the original in story/gameplay, and FF7 is just a less faithful remake, but not necessarily in a bad way.

Also I’d say it’s other companies underselling their games as calling them remakes. I mean they are technically remakes but they could call it something else. TTYD is pretty much taking a slot for the next mainline Paper Mario, so yeah they went all out with this game

Remake = making a completely new game on the foundations of an old one. New engine, new gameplay/perspective. Everything is NEW. Resident Evil 1(the original one on the GC), 2, 3 and 4, also Final Fantasy 7 are prime examples. More examples - Pokemon Omega Ruby, Alpha Sapphire, HeartGold/SoulSilver.

Remaster = it is the same game. They just add better textures, maybe throw a new DLC in there like Kingdoms of Amalur. Examples of that are Resident Evil HD Remaster (the ones after the GC), Starcraft Remastered, Diablo 2 Remastered.

@Zuljaras So yeah, TTYD is a remake, since it seems to be running on a newer engine, it’s perspective seems wider/more zoomed out, and is supposedly changing up the gameplay with probably new content and QoL features.

Really, though, that was never the definition of remake. ‘To make again’ is more accurate. It CAN completely change the gameplay/story, but it doesn’t have to. Again, the FF and RE remakes are just simply less faithful remakes and could possibly alienate the players of the original, and more faithful remakes like TTYD let new fans experience while not alienating the original fanbase. A remake can be made either more faithful (Heartgold/SoulSlilver, TTYD, Link’s Awakening) or not as faithful (Final Fantasy, RE). But the one constant is that all of these are remakes, and just different kinds. People got confused on the definition recently, but it pretty much just means from the ground up, not just an updated version of the original

A remaster is when you're not re-creating something using new content, you're just putting the original content through updated processes to refine the result.

A remake is when you take an idea previously realised and create a new realisation of that idea using newly created content.

What we're dealing with here is something in-between a remaster and a remake, and is therefore technically referred to by those in the know as a remakester.

/thread

@gcunit The game has confirmed new content, we will likely be seeing more in detail next week or at least very soon. New content isn’t necessary for a remake as long as it’s still from the ground up, but it will still have new content (like the new character that was shown, and new music implying it plays in a brand new part of the game) (also Nintendo has said there are ‘new features’ and ‘a suite of additional changes’). I’d say even by this definition it’s a remake.

'From the ground up' is meaningless in the context of this discussion.

If it's 'from the ground up' but they're using any of the same assets (character designs, environments, story, script, sound effects, music, etc.) then that's not remade content.

If it was virtually all new but with just a small percentage reused then we could accept the term 'remake' in terms of rounding up, but if it's anything less than 95% new then it's not appropriate to say it's been remade, it's been remakestered. Just the fact that the title is the same is evidence enough that it's not a remake, because a full remake would justify a unique title.

George Lucas didn't remake or remaster the original Star Wars trilogy, he remakestered it. And that's what Nintendo's done with TTYD.

Well, the quintessential examples people use for the 'full reimagining' style of remake are the Resident Evil games, which use exactly the same title as the originals, and Final Fantasy VII, which just sticks 'Remake' on the end...

@gcunit

@gcunit This picture is evidence that this is a remake.

Everything is made new but is extremely accurate. You can tell that they are not exactly the same by leg placement, 3D effect to the models, Koops having the right amount of fingers this time, etc.

@gcunit What are Link’s Awakening and Super Mario RPG to you? Are those not full remakes since they keep the name? It’s just Nintendo strategy for remakes.